Are the white Karens of HR and talent acquisition team the problem in the low numbers in Black and POC hiring? Maybe they aren’t to blame? But we can’t dismiss the fact white women hold the majority of the recruitment and hiring positions and the possibility that it is one of the reasons why it makes it so much harder for POC to get their foot in the door of this industry.
I’m surprised there are not a lot of posts on the diversity section I’m guessing that Schmatte doesn’t have a large POC community yet. But I would love to hear voices and opinions from this community within the fashion industry thoughts on hiring and job application process in the fashion industry (particularly NYC) and how they dealt with recruiters who the majority are white women in these positions. Personally I feel like they are the cause of the low numbers in diversity and inclusion of POC. In the past I had better luck getting hired into open-minded and inclusive companies that had a diverse range of employees or the hiring managers/ team weren’t white. Thoughts?
I don’t think it’s just HR. Would we benefit from more POC in HR positions? Absolutely. But also, these HR reps work for the company and if the company doesn’t embrace POC then there won’t be any diversity even if HR presents POC candidates.
Fashion is notoriously cliquey and close knit so part of the problem is that management sometimes would rather have friends, family, or like minded and like skinned people around them. Hence the giant discussion about the ‘community’ on this site. However, the cliquey behavior extends beyond the ‘community’.
Hummmm never thought of it in that way. You do bring up good points. I also know lots of job are by word of mouth. So if your group of friends isn’t diverse you may miss out. But back to the recruiters they could also be the issue with the pay gap. I’m not saying out right racism but bias. Maybe not fighting as hard for a salary or presenting a lower wage off the bat. This is such a layered issue…
@coolgurl What are the percentages of POCs that go to FIT, Parsons, FIDM or any of the other major fashion programs? Could the supply of talent be a factor too?
Looking at the the data on CollegeFactual.com, it looks like African Americans are under-represented at these schools but other POCs are over-represented; at least, compared to the general population.
It is my experience that the hiring managers are mostly responsible for who gets hired whereas HR/Recruiting does the initial advertising, screening and interviews.
@coolgurl With respect to the major fashion schools, it looks like Non-Resident Aliens make up more of the student population than African Americans. FIT by a few percentage points, Parsons by an exponential amount.
Could part of the problem be the major schools favoring foreign nationals over American minority groups?
Completely agree with you, it’s very important to look at where this starts, which is schools. That was my first thought when I saw people posting about lack of African Americans in fashion. I went to two colleges, and in both fashion programs, there were very few African Americans. At my last school, there were 3 in the fashion program, and I do know 2 are currently successful in the industry, and the other changed her career to makeup soon after graduating. Not to deny that discrimination exists, but looking at the pool of people for companies to choose from, there is a much higher percentage of white and Asian Americans, and very few, if any African Americans that I myself have encountered while interviewing. This is just my experience, obviously.
I agree— it starts at the education level. In my graduating class in design school, there were 3 Black students.
If high schoolers don’t know what opportunities are available to take on, they won’t be able to map the plan to get there. And internships… in my day, I took unpaid internships but now for most companies I’ve dealt with, they are all paid. Maybe having them be paid makes it easier for more college students to take advantage… instead of having to choose between a part time paying job and an unpaid internship. In any case, those that can afford to take an unpaid experience are at an advantage. And those are usually white people of upper middle class… with connected family friends.
I think the insistence that all design school graduates have a BA or higher is elitist and unnecessary. When I was in school, you were encouraged to get your associates degree and the last 2 years you would’ve spent on the bachelors was translated as real world experience. Not everyone can afford to get a four year degree, and I firmly believe you do NOT need one to get into fashion design, but HR depts don’t understand anything beyond the standard Liberal Arts Bachelor’s Degree, so the ask for the design equivalent. And schools make more money on BA’s, so of course they push them. And they allow unpaid internships for college credit. And that means that statistically, fewer POC enter the NYC design world.
I think it’s all the above and more sometimes. I’ve been told that I interview well. That was told to me by a POC HR person to me a POC. That particular job that I got was one of the best I ever had especially seeing all the of the POC there and it was not a little here or there. Here’s the surprise: it was a streetwear company. Fast forward to now where I’ve had to reinvent myself over many times - many interviews go sideways as the culture of companies have changed. Imaging sending artwork (non-streetwear) with resume with said streetwear brand on resume to a unknown company posting looking for a designer, getting a call and then getting hyped that your going in for an interview. Posting at time was for Theory. So I said ok. I can walk the walk and talk. Got my Varvatos suit on, got my portfolio together and went in on a hot day. Once there and interviewing I got a look and without really going into a lot of detail non POC HR said when they aren’t sure about the person who is interviewing they ask you to do a project. I didn’t really think about it until days passed and I got no call or email giving me another interview of project. Some may say “oh you had the streetwear brand on your resume”. That’s ok as I helped them make millions of dollars and a designers job is to design. Take the logo off if you want. A shirt is a shirt of course of course. Look where LV went years after…
You’re right! I lived in a town where there was only one employer in fashion, I had 10 years of experience before I moved there. I applied for over 15 jobs and the “Karens” all sent me the sorry but emails. I got so fed up I sent a shame on you letter to the VP of HR and I told them they are crazy for not hiring me. I had an interview and a job within 2 months of that letter. I can’t stand being slidelined as a POC, over and over again so I have decided and in the process of building a fair and just company that values people from all walks of life. If you want change you have to be the change.
Um no. I would say that’s not the case. I think looking at NYC design schools is too microscopic the people that apply to positions in NYC are global; and trust me I know plenty of my German and Swedish friends who got jobs in this industry with no fashion experience.
Ugh. Don’t get me started to Europeans being hired above all else. I once worked for someone from Europe who had experience at the luxury brands. She was very threatened by me because I knew my craft. She wasn’t that skilled in the category we worked on and she did not appreciate me and my knowledge of construction which she clearly lacked. POC here, of course.
@grandpoobah I went to FIT, I do not believe that is the case. The talent supply is there for sure. Bias and racism in the fashion industry is a huge problem. I’m hoping that the fashion companies who posted blacked out screens, in support of BLM, on their Instagram accounts were not just being on trend.
Funnily, when this topic is brought up, the stats are mentioned as counterpoint. I don’t know where or how these stats are determined, but the personal experience of every POC I’ve spoken to have at least one personal story of discrimination.
Perhaps starting your thread with an argumentative statement is not the best way to gain a proper perspective on the industry? “White Karens?” If you’re looking to discuss this topic, perhaps the best way to approach it is not to put people immediately on the defensive? Walk a trade show. Far more women than men in the industry. Should that change? Our company is made up of all walks of life, with nearly 60% of employees WOC. We hire who best fits a role.
I stopped applying to Levi’s due to this. I think it was maybe like every 2 years I would hear from someone in HR about a position. After talking a bit I was literally told that they had a hard time placing people from the U.S as a lot of the top people were from Europe and wanted to hire people from Europe. (Yeah cause an American can’t design for Americans). Imagine when I eventually interviewed (and not get the job) that it couldn’t even be answered if they made anything here in the U.S. not even a capsule.
Wait what?? They are an American brand based here and they had the nerve to say that out their mouth?? I’m shocked. I was hoping to potentialMy make my way to that company as I’m in denim. This information sucks. I mean I knew it would be hard but dang now it sounds impossible.
I used to sell software to fashion industry companies in New York. Almost every urban brand I visited on sales calls was owned by Jewish or Italian garmentos and staffed with young Korean and Chinese designers, tech designers and production managers.
i think its on ALL of us. Yes HR is mostly Karens who do not give a shit about anyone. But as a manager I make it my JOB to look for talent everywhere. And that is with in mind the education gap for black & BIPOC people. I always look for opportunities to give paid internships or hire straight out, if that person is teachable. There are so many white/white passing people i’ve worked with over the years who do not have a BA or even an associates degree but were still given opportunities by their managers who just gave them a shot. So if other managers were willing to put time into training those employees, I am going to do my best to give that privilege to others. Especially when i look around my office, at the whiteness, and at the lack of diversity, few women in leadership let alone women of color. We all have to contribute here, not just HR.