Maybe I’m being very specific to large companies which is what I have always worked for.
If you moved up internally, one would need to be assistant, associate, designer, Sr designer, director, Sr director and then VP. The higher level roles like Sr designer & Director would usually require at least 6-10 years experience before moving to a VP role. It just seems very strange to me, starting at 22, you would need to move past 5 roles to Director by 30 to be qualified which at a company like mine is very unusual.
I should also probably clarify that a VP at a “large” company like mine is over about 100-150 people, including about 5 principle designers, 7-10 directors & 3-5 Sr directors
I have done all of the things listed, and updated my portfolio to look “digitally native” ( a buzzword for “young”). I worked at fashion mags and brands, and by sheer luck of my genes look younger than I am—BUT anyone can google you and find out your age. Got laid off at 53 after a long successful career, doubt I’ll ever get back in. It’s depressing, because we have the solid experience, and “taste level” doesn’t leave you when you turn 40!
@SSCNY I’m right there with you. My experience is primarily in kids (all age ranges) and home textiles. How can someone be aged-out of understanding trend & relevance in these categories?!! (Or ANY category. Fashion is not just for the young). I have worked with or for the biggest retailers in the country. I have managed huge budgets, overseen design & development of 100’s of sku simultaneously, created new programs driving incremental sales, & all the other things that someone working successfully in the industry for 30 years has expertise in. I keep up my appearance & also, luckily, look younger than my age. Yet I find it difficult to land the first interview. One can’t demonstrate what they can bring to the company if they aren’t given the opportunity.
I know that ageism is prevalent in most industries, but I do think within fashion/design/buying/merchandising it is especially widespread.
I wasn’t only referring to small companies. I’ve worked for diverse fashion companies that have had up to 400-500 employees…so I’m not strictly talking about small companies that have 30-50 employees. Between what I’ve seen with co-workers, in addition to other people within the industry, it’s not uncommon to be in your late 30s to early 40s and reach Director or VP title…I’ve even seen slightly younger. Also, keep in mind only a small percent of people (especially due to toxicity, cliques, and even mergers/restructuring) actually stay at the exact same company fresh out of college and go up the ladder from Assistant to VP level…that was more “the norm” during our parents and grandparents era…although there still is a percentage of people who are lucky to do so.
I think besides being stellar at what you do, you should give yourself timeframes as to how long you stay at each position…and don’t be afraid to leave a role even if you love what you do and are friends with co-workers. Know what your “desired next move(s)” are, even when you get a new role! I’ve seen many people fall within that trap…even if their company is toxic.
I know a woman who made it rule at the beginning of her career to never stay in lower level roles for more than 3 years without getting promoted or a very nice raise. By the time she was 38y/o, she was a Director and making a healthy 6-figure salary. Even if you were to go on LinkedIn and do a search for people who have Director positions, you will see plenty of people who have graduated from university after 2002 who have accomplished this and they are at nice sized firms within corporate retail and fashion. By no means am I saying it’s easy…but it definitely can be done.
I think the only exception to the rule perhaps is if you are strictly referring to extremely high end fashion companies, like a Chanel or Dior. But otherwise, regardless of whether someone is in sales, design, merch/pd, or planning for “regular department store brands”, mid-tier, mass, or discount…what I have said isn’t uncommon.
I agree with what you are saying. I’m not in HR, but I have been in charge of managing the interview process to expand my team at a few of my companies. I also have been friends with people who have worked in recruiting/HR and I’ve been able to pick their brains over the years.
Because so many people do it, people reviewing resumes see dates removed from the year someone graduated from university as “red flags.” I’ve had people say when they see this on a resume, by default they will assume someone is past early 40s…and perhaps they have removed the early after college experience from their resume too. Once many people start doing this, it’s no longer a “trick to look younger.” From what I’ve been told, people have been doing this since before the year 2000. Most people I know who are under 35 y/o aren’t going to remove the college graduation date from their resume. Yes, a person can “look great for their age,” but I’ve found even so whether it was during the interview process, a co-worker who I got to know on a person basis, and even in social settings…I’ve honestly never encountered a person who was past mid 40s for example who I thought they was significantly younger…and by no means do I think that is old. Others have told me the same. And this is even if they aren’t overweight and dress well. I also find I’ve often been able to pick up on if someone is 50 y/o or older, but they dress in a way in efforts of looking younger (and I’m not even talking about “dressing inappropriately.”)
The fact of the matter is…talent is talent, regardless of someone’s age. But we can’t look the other way at the fact that the fashion industry definitely has issues with ageism, euro-centric standards of beauty and weight (I’ve DEFINITELY seen many women who are skinny, very pretty, with a killer wardrobe who happen to have a college degree…but they’re not that bright or are even somewhat lazy, or they easily get away with their obvious “fake it til you make it mentality”…but because of what they look like, they don’t have an issue getting decent to good paying jobs within the industry…I’m not even talking about woman who sleep their way to the top).
I’m confused with your response to me. If refer to my comments, I was specifically replying to “Sanddune” comment…unless you have 2 profile accounts? They were the one who specifically stated they were in their middle 30s.
I think someone might have mentioned in a previous post that potential employers can easily find out your age by doing a Google search. A few years ago, I heard about a man who was able to obtain the voter registration information in every state in which it is considered public information. He then published that information on a website in order to make $ from advertisers. I lived in a state where my information was available. When I googled my name, there was my birthdate, age, address, and phone number for any one to see. I was flabbergasted and incredibly angry. Not only for myself, but - this is off-topic - but for those who have very good reasons to remain undetectable by specific people. If anyone wasn’t aware of this - google your name & see if your personal info is out there.
Yes, that’s true. There are actually numerous sites (free and ones where you have to pay) which will provide info on someone, such as spokeo.com and USA Phone Directory (I think that’s the name). Also, not saying all companies do this, but I’ve heard of company’s looking up candidate’s social media accounts to see how attractive they were AKA “if they looked the part”. I previously worked for a company where someone looked up candidate’s social media accounts and they happened to find semi-nude type of photos…they had been called in to interview…they didn’t get the job.
I’m on your side in being against ageism, I’m just stating some facts, if the perception is not that younger people in design have a better sense of trends, then no one would be answering to this thread.
The fact is, if someone were interviewing a 55 year old design director that makes 200K, versus multiple options to choose someone who was 35 who makes 150K, guess which one will be hired every single time.
Any person in their right mind should be against ageism…simply because if you’re lucky to live long enough, the majority of us who work within this industry will definitely be a victim of it some day…unless you’re a business owner, or in that special “inner circle” within a company.
Yes, men can be affected by it, but let’s get real here…women experience this to a much deeper degree…just like in most spaces of society. I often wonder what it will be like when it becomes “my turn.” In addition to salary, I also strongly feel it is about who these fashion companies (regardless the pricepoint of product), want to be “the face” of their company when it comes to interacting with accounts…a woman in her 50s or 60s (even if she is a good dresser and in shape while being great at her job)…or a woman who is in her 20s or 30s who has the same qualities…for some of these unethical companies, it’s not even about money…this is why I feel women in design, merchandising, and product development roles and even sometimes sales often get “aged out,” because women in these roles are “the face” of the company due to meeting with the accounts and attending trade shows for new business.
In many of these business owner’s minds, having an attractive, well dressed young in-shape woman telling accounts what are the new hottest fashion products to order is more convincing as opposed to hearing it from a woman over 50 y/o…again, this isn’t my belief, but with the conversations I’ve had with older women and things I’ve seen…this vibe is accurate for many places. I think besides working for a company that hopefully doesn’t age people out…the only time being older potentially “works in your favor” is if the fashion brand’s core target consumer is someone over 45 y/o. The fashion industry is already often very superficial in terms of standards of beauty…which includes weight, ethnicity, how well someone dresses, how pretty your face is…and DEFINITELY age.
Two words? ICON ACCIDENTAL
She’s an amazing woman (IG) who has followers from 15 to 85… I think any company who clearly has an issue with “age” is not a company - as most of us are clearly, good, fair, intelligent, talented people would want to be a part of anyway. There is something to be said with “it’s just a job” but I think gone are the days of working like muted robots who nod… Certainly I would never want anyone on my team like this and have never been this employee, manager or executive myself. Fit and culture are another thing. So the brightest, coolest 25 YO may not be right for that company who prides themselves on a more conservative appeal that the 45 YO hits perfectly. It really should - and must - be about talent and fit. Anything else and we’re all just wasting our time…
I’m pushing 50, have spent my entire career in merchandising / buying at some well regarded companies. I’m wondering how viable it is for me to work until I’m 60. I feel like merchandising is perhaps a little more age resistant then some other functions, but I’m not sure. Do people think this is something I can do until my 60’s, or how long a runway do I realistically have?
My background is merch/pd as well and I reside in NYC…I think it depends upon how high up the ladder you currently are…but to be honest, I rarely see or hear of someone with the title “Merchandiser” or even “Senior Merchandiser” over 50 y/o get a new job…sad but true. Also, go on LinkedIn and do a search for people with the specific title you have in your region…look at the faces…look at the year they graduated. That will give you the answer better than anything else. I’m a firm believer you can often tell quite a bit about a particular company and even industry based upon the types of people they continuously hire…especially in a major market like NYC. A company that has been in business for over 20 or 30 years…yet the age range or even ethnic range of employees is nonexistent…or the company that conveniently only has female employees who are under 35 y/o and all no larger than a size 6??? Companies like this exist.
I feel the further up the totem pole you are when you hit a certain age the better. If you are currently a Director or VP of Merch, normally people at that level especially have a strong reputation and influential circles. I’ve noticed some of my former co-workers who could easily get VP roles when they were in their late 30s to late 40s have now reach their mid 50s and older are now taking Director level roles…which might be less money, but at least it’s still good money. If I was in your shoes, I would still keep applying, but I would also look at Merch/pd jobs that are outside of fashion but where you could utilize many of your skills. Age discrimination is everywhere unfortunately, especially for women. But sometimes, going to nonfashion products will get you a higher salary after spending many years going up the ladder in fashion.
The other route within fashion that I would say is a great transition is a sales executive for private label accounts. Most merchandisers are active participants during sales appointments because you are the person who picked the trends for the products…and most merchandisers have strong presentation skills…what better person to sell a product than the actual person who created it?! I have conducted sales meetings whenever my sales exec was unable to attend…and my company received orders as a result.
I agree that the higher you are by a certain age the better off you are.
I’m curious about your point on going into non fashion categories, which areas do you think are most open to fashion backgrounds and have the most potential?
Would love to talk to you and friends who are interested in staying in fashion. The men’s fashion industry has increased significantly over the women’s. Women my age are having great success as a men’s stylist - it’s flexible - your own schedule!
My company laid off 3 people over 60 in March due to covid-19. At least that is how they presented it. I was of those. The president paid little attention to what older females had to say and never valued their opinions or thoughts.
And unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it, unless you have proof that the lay-offs were age-related. The current age discrimination laws are written to serve the employer, not the employee. It’s time these laws were changed so that they actually protect the people they are supposed to protect.
Sounds like my story. I was a VP of Design at a multi billion global brand who was ultimately forced to work retail . Even then it was PT gig w/ no benefits. Cannot even get a response from an online Job application. How can you go from creating $100m a year in product for a company to being unemployable once you hit 50.
Is this the only industry where we have to consider which job tenures to remove from our resumes, as we need to look “less experienced“?
It’s especially brutal for women in the creative side. On the business side you can go on to become a Div President or sth., but in design - once you have made over a certain amount you are actively rendered unemployable.
Horrific reality.
Companies like this exist.
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