StyleCareers did this survey a few years back. Does it still hold up?
I agree with everything youâre saying as far as keeping up appearances in order to get work. Updating style is important no matter what age itâs like the season changing - but please donât turn yourself into someone else for a job! Itâs better to get a job where you can be 100% yourself, youâll be happier. Iâve been in positions where I was clearly 10 years older than everyone else and it sucks to watch your words because of fear of aging yourself. It kills your creativity. Many companies / agencies operate like this is âLoganâs Runâ but Iâm optimistic that the fashion industry will get better in terms of diversity and I think it would start with us Gen Xers & up refusing to fit into âyouth cultureâ whatever that means now. Weâre unicorns dammit, weâve seen the world pre and post internet, which includes design, technology, media, music, fashion, writing vs. typing, etc⊠. Weâve got this!
12 Likes
Yes kind of like if they donât present black candidates itâs not their fault- but itâs is because the agency is a representative of their company and should be acting in accordance with all state and federal laws in regards to employment and hiring practices.
Hmmm⊠just happened to have the link? Hey Chris! What are you going to do with all this data and comments you are gathering?
1 Like
Iâm in Design (have been for 19 years now) and I definitely think one of the biggest factors is that companies just donât want to pay for experience. Yes, some places care about a âculture fitâ and others are looking for someone who âhave their finger on the pulse of whatâs happeningâ, but really, if youâre a good designer, you can be 45 and design for a juniors market; just as you can be a woman and design for menâs, etc.
I see so many ads for âjuniorâ level or âassociateâ level jobs, and when I read the description it has all the duties and responsibilities of a more senior level role. Like a âjunior technical designerâ who is, in reality, a true technical designer- only they want to pay $45k. Same with âAssociate Designerâ who is in charge of product from start to finish, traveling for development, and doing all the things a designer does, just without the title and salary.
I think this happens a lot in smaller companies (Iâm in LA) and while many of these are probably a great opportunity for a younger person to get their feet wet and some experience under their belt, it also usually sets the company up to be a revolving door- once younger people get a year or two there, they move on, and the company goes through the hiring process all over again.
Once you hit a certain age in Design, itâs expected youâre either a manager or a director, and those jobs are few and far between, or youâre constantly being passed over because you have "too much experience (ie: cost too much).
14 Likes
Exactly, Iâve been told the same thing
1 Like
I noticed after 40, if I had an interview for a creative design position that I would be steered toward the technical design positions. I even had one interviewer imply that I may not have the âstaminaâ to keep up with the demands of the design positionâs expectations.
1 Like
Not with that company, but I came to the realization that in CA, which has more issues with age & race, if I wanted to work - I needed to consider tech design. I did tech design for a couple of years, but now am in a director of prod. development role. I design and do tech, so it eventually worked out.
2 Likes
I agree with no graduation dates on resumeâs, however, when you have to fill out an online application, it ALWAYS asks for a graduation month and year (at least that is what I have found for every online application i have filled out). I have tried not filling that portion out, but you canât get to the next section until you do. So eventually, they do see your information and work it against you.
I started having issues when I was 32 and now 15 years later, it has gotten worse with each passing year. Honestly, when did having experience and knowledge get thrown out the window? Most of us have kept up to date with technology and have seen the ups and downs of our industry, so that should make us even more valuable!
And theexcuse of âwill they fit our cultureâ is absolutely ridiculous! And when it comes to salary, pay us our worth and we will stay with you (the company). I have been overlooked only to find out someone half my age, with 1/5 of the experience has been hired, and then come to find that person leaves after 6 months because either they get bored (which I hear from younger colleagues) or they start looking for another job as soon as they get the one they are at. Then the whole recruiting process begins again. What a waste of time.
Hire us with the experience and knowledge from the get-go! We have value!
9 Likes
I recently hired a product developer who was +40 (keeping this vauge). Age/ experience to me was a plus on the resume! (mind you I myself am -40)
The resume was PERFECT, but the hire I actually got⊠was combative, negative and a terrible cultural fit with my team (whose ages really range from early 20s to late 60s, so a diverse age group).
This is all per-person for sure, but it was very different hiring someone who had an obvious chip on their shoulder from prior experience versus being able to hire someone with maybe less experience, but an open mind who wants to learn and change. To me, I probably needed to dig a little more on references before the hire and look more into the history with this person? Maybe I would have found some flags?
My company lost a lot of money on the hire and it was very frustrating overall and a total failure. Not defending age-ism as all, as itâs not how I want to operate as a hiring manager! But to be honest itâs spooked me, lol.
Your experience tracks perfectly with the survey StyleCareers did a few years agoâŠ
A company runs the risk of negative personality traits with hires of any age. I think a few keys to digging deeper into the underlying personality & cultural fit are:
- Several behavioral questions during the interview process, especially regarding how the candidate dealt with people in their past roles. How did they handle a conflict with a colleague? How do they work within a team? What is their management style & how do they like to be managed? How do they build & maintain good relationships with other team members? Try to garner as much information as possible through the interview process about how they work with others.
- Review their LI profile & see if there are comments regarding their relationships with colleagues.
There are a lot of crabby people of all ages! I worked with a new-hire in her 30âs who alienated almost everyone in the company right away. Her behavior was arrogant, condescending, back-stabbing, and down-right mean. She didnât last long. We later found out that in her last 2 jobs, she was widely disliked & demeaning to her direct reports. Her replacement was over 55, and was respectful, generous with her knowledge, and open-minded about learning our companyâs processes.
Itâs not about age - itâs the individual personality!
12 Likes
I made the switch from Design to Tech Design. Sometimes itâs hard to play down my âcreativeâ achievements, knowing that I could do both the creative & technical portions of the job with ease.
4 Likes
Just today, this topic was trending on LinkedIn. It is about what an ad exec said, but it could be for any industry: " The CEO of one of the worldâs largest ad agency holding companies is weathering criticism for comments that are being perceived as ageist. In response to an analyst question on whether the company had the right mix of skills in-house, Mark Read, CEO of WPP, responded, âThe average age of someone who works at WPP is less than 30. They donât hark back to the 1980s, luckily.â He has since apologized but his comments raise an important conversation about the rampant issue of ageism in the ad industry.â (Todayâs LinkedIn).
Article of his apology: https://www.moreaboutadvertising.com/2020/08/ageism-row-wpp-ceo-mark-read-apologises-on-twitter/
I had a (what I thought was a great) interview the other day for an apparel design position to oversee the launch of a new category for an existing company. Was on the phone for 45 min, and the VP who interviewed me even sent over the inspiration deck to look over. Seemed to be pleased that I had experience in this specific category and didnât need hand holding. But I didnât get the job and when I inquired a little further as to why, all I was told is that they decided to go with someone with one year experience. One year compared to my ten years in this specific category.
It felt like a gut punch. My husband tried to make me feel better by saying that they probably wanted to keep costs down and went with someone younger for cheaper reasons and that he/she wonât last long and they will have to start the hiring process again. Even if that is the case, it didnât make me feel better. The opportunities are getting less and less, and honestly, when did having experience and longevity become a bad thing?!?
And then you have clowns like this ad exec saying crap like this.
Ugh!
6 Likes
I myself am quite young (mid 30s), but I am noticing this sort of thing at my company. Our division just hired two VP level people and I swear they both canât be more than 5-7 years older than I am making it impossible for them to have the amount of experience needed for such large oversight. How is this happening?
2 Likes
I was regularly offered VP and director positions in my 30s and 40s. Recruiters contacted me with opportunities every month. I worked hard, always made money for my employers, took on any task that I was asked to do,
mentored junior talent, helped out colleagues that were short handed. I was on the plane to China when needed, stayed late when needed.
I know more now than ever before, have more skills, work quickly, and always meet deadlines. However, I am now always passed over for jobs and young designers with a fraction of my experience and no track record of success fill those positions. I have had recruiters call me because I been recommended for jobs, but once they figure out my age, itâs a no go. And itâs happened to my friends, also. Itâs Gotten worse in the last few years, also. And the irony, is that hiring the best people - regardless of age - would increase sales and save these companies money.
8 Likes
I agree with you, but I think design is always going to be a young persons profession unless you are famous like a lagerfled level designer.
The fact is companies pay for designers to be on trend and relevant to whatâs happening, and that naturally leans towards younger people.
It can be perception, but fashion is all about perception
1 Like
Thatâs ridiculous. Making up excuses for illegal hiring practices is shameful. Young designers donât have a better eye for design and trend than more experienced designers. In fact, in the past, I have worked for several Directors that were older and were Incredible. This practice of hiring young designers for senior positions is fairly recent and the results are obvious. In home fashions, inexperienced designers have no idea how to create product for the demographic that purchases most of the goods sold.
8 Likes
Iâm rather confused by your comment and want to make sure I understand you. You state you are in your middle-30s, so letâs say 36 y/o for referenceâŠyet you donât feel someone who is in their early 40s is capable of getting to VP?? That absolutely is possible/not uncommon. I actually noticed this when I first started my career with people older than meâŠeven today.
Letâs say someoneâs career path is Merchandiser and they had the following titles through the years:
Assistant/Assoc MerchâȘ MerchâȘMerch ManagerâȘMerch DirectorâȘVP Merch
If they started their career at 21-22 y/o, it actually is possible to be a VP by late 30s/early 40s. Most people I know donât stay at Assistant or Associate level for more than 2 yearsâŠ3 years tops (at least you shouldnât, IMO)âŠbecause thatâs an entry-level job. Regardless of whether your career path is sales, merchandising/pd, planning, or designâŠthe longer you stay at that entry-level role, the more likely you are stunting your future growth rate. You are basicially telling your employer âyou will stay where you are put.â If someone is great at what they do, itâs definitely not uncommon for someone who has held a Manager position for 3 to 4 years to have the ability to move on to Director levelâŠwhether within that company and especially if they jump to another company. Iâve also seen people who have held Director positions for 3 to 4 years easily move on to VP. And Iâm specifically talking about people where they arenât related to the owners of the company or close friends (letâs be REAL, those people often reach Director and VP titles by middle 20s to 30 y/o).
2 Likes