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I recently applied to two positions at Warby Parker and they have part of their job application mandatory fields of graduation start and end dates. I find this very distressing and what they have perhaps programed the ATS to weed out.
After getting a rejection without talking to a human I emailed someone in HR my resume as I am a match for their job posting.
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I believe requiring date of graduation is illegal. Anything which specifically ties to an applicantās age is illegal.
Thanks Pinky. I looked it up and it appears itās not illegal. At least on a basic google search
According to the Society of Human Resources Managers, asking job candidates for birth dates, high school graduation dates or college transcripts isnāt illegal, but the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has said those questions can raise questions about why a company is asking for such information, especially if an age discrimination lawsuit arises.
Yes, I did some digging & found the same information. I firmly believe that most companies that REQUIRE that date on an application are weeding out people of a certain age. It is illegal to use age as a reason not to move an applicant forward, but how does one prove that?? This is one of the ways that companies continue to circumvent the ADEA. The ADEA simply does not go far enough in protecting older workers. I adamantly believe that the ADEA needs to be completely overhauled, and things such as requiring graduation dates on applications SHOULD be illegal. Until there is a grass-roots movement demanding change, this will continue to go on.
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I attended the Older Job Seekers webinar and was really disappointed to hear that most of the advice given was toward the job seeker: change your email address, donāt use old terms on your resume, remove dates, etc. I heard very little pushback or discussion that the headhunters/agencies, HR and hiring managers should change their perspective and open their minds (and wallets JUST a little bit). Hire the best person for the job, whether they be 25 or 55.
The pre-judgements need to stop. Yes, we expect to make more money, but maybe we would negotiate for a lower salary just to have a job. And our experience is worth every penny. Yes, we might have other obligations outside our job, but the hours we do put in are much more productive; we donāt need to chat in the kitchen every hour. We are all not stuck in the olden days and many of us are actively upskilling in order to keep up with the technology in fashion. V disappointed the mindset on the hiring set was not addressed more.
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Itās interesting that the prejudice is reinforced in these āolder job seekerā seminars.
We are told to hide our age, minimize our experience, dress & act like in ways that make us look younger and itās assumed that we donāt have current digital and technical skills.
Placing the blame on the victim.
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The advice HAS to be about the job seekers and their habits. Sure, it would be great to change the decades-old prejudices of employers and hiring managers BUT that isnāt realistic.
We provided advice that would help job seekers deal with the way the world is now NOT the way it should be. Is it fair? Of course not. Is it the way it is. Yes.
To be fair, for example, if you use an AOL email address, recruiters will look at you as if your are out of touch and will be much less likely to contact you. The seminar told older job seekers NOT to use an AOL address. Is that really reinforcing a stereotype? To me it sounds like sound advice; making sure recruiters donāt view the job seeker as someone who doesnāt know technology.
With respect to personal presentation, job seekers need to portray the brandās image in their interviews. As an example, a person going for a design job at Hot Topic shouldnāt show up to the interview looking like they are designing for J McLaughlin and vice versa. Is that hiding your age OR good advice?
The advice from the seminar was for success in the industry the way it is today. It would be reckless of us to have provided advice on the way things should be.
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This advice is a placebo. Makes the recruiters feel good but doesnāt actually result in job opportunities for employees over 50. Employers and recruiters know the age of the applicant and reject them out of hand. In fact, Several recruiters actively weed out applicants because of age and make it a point to find out how old they are. (āWhen did you graduate collegeā questions). I donāt even know anyone with an AOL email. (I did work for men in sales positions who had AOL emails but the textile industry doesnāt reject men as aggressively as women due to age). Sorry, but Iāve heard too many stories lately of my colleagues who have been replaced by the assistants theyāve hired & trained. Covid shutdowns were open season for firing senior talent, cutting salaries and expanding workdays. Itās very unfortunate.
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I felt like the advice given at the webinar was rehashed stuff weāve already heard many times or simple common sense. I doubt that many people who have worked in the fashion industry for many years need to be told to have an updated hairstyle and dress stylishly.
I so wish that recruiters would push back with clients who tell them not to submit anyone with more than 5-7 years experience. No agency I have worked with has the guts to do it. I understand that the clients are the ones paying, but until recruiters stop perpetuating the age bias, nothing will change.
I actually laughed when I saw that the representative from Fourth Floor was maybe 30 years old tops. In my experience, they are the absolute worst for experienced (I.E. older) workers. If I see that a position is posted by Fourth Floor, I donāt even bother.
I think that unless you are at a very senior level, if you are over 40 - especially in large markets like NY & LA - the chances of getting a position are slim. The best option is probably freelance.
After 30 years, Iām getting out.
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Hi Grandpoobah
Thanks for putting that webinar together. Although many on this thread didnāt get much out of it that shouldnāt discourage you from doing more. Itās a super challenging job market out there especially for those older and who are more senior. No recruiter has the formula to get anyone hired, they can only fill their clientās needs regardless if they feel it is correct or not.
I attended a webinar last week done by 24/Seven and it was much of the same. No magic wand and I asked them some direct questions about applying for lower-level roles etc.
Wishing everyone the courage to keep applying.
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Ex apparel designer here for this exact reason - Itās all about appearances in this industry. The cool girl/guy factor. Brands want young cool designers not only designing but presenting their brand. Older people are typically on the merch side and their experience seems to carry more weight there. Iāve NEVER seen a designer in their 40ās unless theyāre a creative director.
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100% happens in design. My friends and I joke about how once we hit 40ās our careers will be done. Sad but trueā¦Iāve seen many designers get let go once they are over 40ās because they want āyoung people with fresh ideasā
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itās the former. people in their 50s are not out of touch. i have a mentor who is over 50 and she is way cooler than anyone i know, my age or younger. āageā is a state of mind. you canāt replicate or replace someoneās proven ability to connect, illuminate, inspire, and be able to translate that into dollars.
I wish that more companies and hiring managers would open their eyes and see the value in professionals that are talented, cool as hell, and just happen to be older. aging will happen to all of us! This industry proves time and time again to be awful and we are the people who work in it so we should have the power to change it.
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LA, letās start thereā¦46K is a 1st job salary. Jobs in LA pay terribly. We are one of the most expensive cities in the US/ World and the pay is laughable.
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Thereās also hardly any way to prove it sadly.
Dear Popbah,
Yes that is reinforcing the stereotype that recruiters have. Every bit of advice that Iāve seen tell older people to look younger. Dye our hair, etc. To cover up our age. Please accept that we all age, and asking someone to cover that up is agist from the start. Look at Li Edelkoort! She gives not one F about looking young, and sheās at the top of the forecasting industry.
If weāre in fashion, I would assume that we dress fashionablyā¦ AOL : no one has that and so what if they do? It works like any other email. ā¦ I find all that advice insulting and agist.
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Update on this.
I emailed the two Co-CEOās of Warby this past week about their mandatory graduation year field on their job application. Although they did not respond to my email I did see that they took this feature off the job application. I hope this will allow all ages to have a fair chance of having their resume seen Warby.
Happy Holidays
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Good for you for taking action! It did initiate a result on the part of the company, so congratulations on a positive first step. Iām convinced if we band together & show numbers in strength, we can cause change at a higher level - meaning LAW, SPECIFIC LAW, not the general wishy-washy nonsense that passes as law currently. We need a GREY HAIR MARCH ON WASHINGTON. We just elected the oldest President in US history - why canāt a 50-year old get a job as an accountant or an engineer or a fashion designer or a retail buyer??? Iām on a mission to make change, I need a network & I need to understand how to get started. I have been venting about this too long, itās time for action.
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